Lies, damned lies and atheists in prison
October 6, 2008
There are some statistics that atheists love to repeat. One of them is this: “About 8-16% of America’s population are atheists, but only 0.21% of the prison population are.”
This page is apparently their source for that. It gives the numbers for prison inmates, and their reported religious groupings, on 5 March 1997. (I wonder why do no atheist ever mention a more recent study? Is this particular 11-year old study the one with results that best match their agenda?)
But wait a minute. These numbers apparently also say that 19,7% of the prisoners population chose not to answer this question, or was perhaps not asked. Now, the prisoners that were not asked are probably not much different from anyone else. We do not know how many of those were numbered in the sample.
But the prisoners who chose not to answer? It make perfect sense that an atheist will be less likely to honestly answer that question. (It may indirectly affect his chances for parole, for instance.)
The people who chose not to answer could, fairly speaking, include anything from absolutely no atheists at all to all atheists, without exception. Atheists could, if these statistics were accurate, anything between 0,21% and 19,95% of the prison population in the USA. Since many (probably the mayority of) people who are atheistic- they do not believe in God or the supernatural- fail to identify themselves with the label of “atheist”, you could assume their true number will be higher.(And Catholics, for example, could be anything between 38,16 and 58%. But it is unlikely that someone would hide his religion from prison authorities. I therefore hold that the number of Catholics will be closer to the former.)
Apparently the “atheists are 8-16 % of the US population” do not hold up to scrutiny either. Other studies claim that 98% of Americans believe in God, and that only 4% of them have no religion. (Note: Numbers for “no religion” or even “unbelief in God” do not equate, even closely, to self-claimed atheism. Many non-religious disbelievers in God would not label themselves as atheists. Using- and grossly inflating- the percentage of unbelievers in America for atheists in the general population, while using only self-proclaimed atheists for the prison atheists, is intellectually dishonest.)
Statement 1: The percentage of atheists in America is, at most, only 1/4 to 1/8 as many as the statistic users tell us.
Statement 2: The atheists in prison may be up to 95 times as many as reported. (The difference between 0,21% and [19,7+0,21]%)
Conclusion: It seems very hard to conclude that atheists are under-represented in American prisons. They may, or may not, have failed to mention their atheism to authorities. In other words, the statistics are inconclusive.
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PS: It seems people with no religion are 105% overrepresented in British prisons. In other words, unbelievers in Britain seem to be more than twice as likely to be in prison. And while Christians account for 39.1 percent of the English and Welsh prison population, they make up 71.8 percent of the total English and Welsh population. Christians are, therefore, seriously under-represented, and nonbelievers seemingly very over-represented, in prisons in England and Wales. But those statistics are not necessarily perfect either.
Entry Filed under: Apologetics. .
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1.
Rod Swift | March 14, 2009 at 9:08 am
But there has been more recent statistics. Here’s the ones from the UK Home Office…
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/hosb1501.pdf
Indeed, their statistics have emulated the US results of Golumbaski (1997), in which, at paragraph 17: “Inmates with No religion formed an important minority at around 30% of the total population. Only 1% of these were Agnostics and Atheists. The remainder had no stated religious affiliation.”
Atheists are under-represented in prison popluations.
2.
Retha | March 16, 2009 at 6:50 am
Rod, you forget that some people who do not label themselves with the words “atheist”or “agnostic” are unbelievers in God too. Here is Vox Day in his book “The Irrational Atheist”, describing more than just one cherry-picked group from that UK source: (Appendix notes his, bold mine)
3. Looking around and trying to understand | May 2, 2009 at 9:51 am
[...] 2, 2009 There is another thought that popped into my head regarding the atheists in prison statistics. What does the form look like that produce these [...]
4.
Joe | July 27, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Here’s another though about about cherry picking data. Why do christians never talk about the parts of the bible that tell people to MURDER children that are disobediant (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)? Or to MURDER people that work on the sabath day? Or to MURDER any number of people that simply disagree with christianity? (have a look yourself)
How about how SEXIST the bible is? If GOD is fair and all knowing, why did he condone sexism?
“1 Corinthians chapter 14 – As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. ”
Wow, I wonder how many women break this rule? Heck, I know a femail preacher, guess after a life of devotion, she’s just a normal sinner for preaching gospels.
“1 Timothy chapter 2 – Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.” I wonder how many women’s rights advocates have read this one? How many teachers are women?
How bout this “Cherry Picked” question? If GOD is all powerfull, why doesn’t he just defeat the devil for good? Why does he send innocent children to hell that simply did not get to meet a preacher and died of starvation at or before 10yrs age?
Just because your afraid of dying doesn’t mean you should make whatever up to make you feel better, especially when it advocates murder, rape, and even slavery.
So, why doesn’t god heal amputees? God has infinite power right? then why did he only heal deaf/blind/sick? all easily faked in those days when people actually believed that germs and disease were just the hand of god. I guess all those Christians that get CANCER are just being tested, even though the BIBLE says if you pray for it then god will grant it. Still, we have people with cancer, aids, and worse who have been worshiping your god all their lives, though…. He helps people’s favorite team win, but wont cure cancer from kids. Thats REAL fair and loving….
“Mark 11:24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours” I can find at least 5 other places where you are told that asking for it in prayer and you will receive it. All from the so called words of Jesus.
I wonder how many Faithful have asked for cancer or aids to be cured. How about all those evil people praying for kids to eat, that still die a horrible slow death of starvation. Yeah, god loves them a LOT to ignore their prayers.
If you can go through the entire website listed below, and still believe in god, then you need some serious mental help.
whydoesgodhateamputees.com <– Plenty of evidence here
You use the products of science (computers, cars, makeup, TV), but refuse the evidence it brings. That's pretty hypocritical, just like 90 percent of the bible.
5.
Simpleton | August 1, 2009 at 12:51 am
Retha, you say “Rod, you forget that some people who do not label themselves with the words “atheist”or “agnostic” are unbelievers in God too.”
Except that, Retha, you are making unfounded assumptions that those who do not label themselves with those words are unbelievers.
They may be just as well be Christians, Muslims, or deists who do not want to label themselves.
Many Christians, for example, do not call themselves Christian these days. They call themselves spiritual, and they believe in God.
6.
Simpleton | August 1, 2009 at 12:52 am
“PS: It seems people with no religion are 105% overrepresented in British prisons. In other words, unbelievers in Britain seem to be more than twice as likely to be in prison.”
Er, there is a difference between people who state “no religion” on their questionnaire and those who are unbelievers.
The former may or may not be unbelievers.
7.
Retha | August 1, 2009 at 8:25 am
No, I dont. I, for instance, am one of the people who do not label myself as “atheist” or “agnostic”, but I don’t label myself as “unbeliever” or as “no religion” either.” Ergo, my words “you forget that some people who do not label themselves with the words “atheist”or “agnostic” are unbelievers in God too.”
8.
Retha | August 15, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I noticed Joe’s comment in my spam box while cleaning up today, so I authorized the posting of it. Ironically, his very first question “Why do christians never talk about the parts of the bible that tell people to MURDER children that are disobediant (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)?” is not applicable to me. On my Afrikaans blog, I already answered that one (in Afrikaans, not a language most of the people here will read.) In short, that verse apply, by context of Exodus 21:15 too, to drunkards who physically abuse their own parents, who have already been helped to improve their behavior, but who don’t listen. Children is meant in the sense not of age but of being offspring from a parent (who, in this case, is abused by their own adult child.) In modern context, it applied to the kind of stories we hear about unemployed drug-abusing adult kids who beat their own parents and steal their parents TV’s and jewellery to sell them for drug money.
The court, in that society, would have given the death penalty to those parent-abusing drunkards. (It was not appropriate in that society for anyone else to decide someone needed the death penalty, it was then, as now, their court’s job.) The court needed testimony from more than one witness. And the relationship between the laws of Deuteronomy/ Leviticus and the new Testament is rather complex. The new Testament has several verses on that relationship that has to be read in context.
The advent of Christianity was after Jesus. That already limits the part of the Bible you need to search for potential quotes about “MURDERING people who disagree with Christianity” to 27 books (the New Testament) out of 66. (People cannot disagree with what they never heard.) Now, I am almost sure you can give me not a single Biblical quote that tells people to murder those who disagree with Christianity- In fact, Christianity started on the other end of prosecution, with their leader being MURDERED, and Christians being murdered. (Of the original 12 disciples, 10 were, according to the historic sources, murdered for their faith.)
I answered that one on my Afrikaans blog too. The simple answer is: The Bible do not say they will be in hell. It say those who knowingly chose against God, will be in hell. Those who chose for Him, will be in heaven. There are people who, for some reason, (like living far from where the gospel could be heard, or before Jesus, or who died small) fall in neither category. Several biblical clues tell us God can judge them fairly too. For example, there are apparently some people who never knew Jesus in heaven- like Abraham, the people of Nineveh etc. The Bible say things like in the day of judgement, the people of Sodom and other sinful cities wil be judged more kindly than those from Capernaum and Bethsaida. And “hell” in the English represent at least 3 terms in Biblical Greek and Hebrew. Do your homework on which word for hell is used where, what the differences in meaning is, and who is promised a horrible punishment, before cherry-picking and twisting data to tell it is unfair. (Off-topic: Whoever gave you the idea a six- or nine-year-old cannot choose Jesus – he/she/they were wrong.)
This answer is from Rich Deem, at http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/why_wont_god_heal_amputees.html :
Conclusion: The number 1 allegation of the site you link to is a lie. Jesus did, according to the NT, heal at least one amputee.
Either that or the believer who goes through there finds objections to it that you may not be clever/ informed enough to notice?
Please mention a piece of scientific knowledge that I both use and reject. Untill you mention that, your argument is nonsense.
Summary: Your first sentence “Why do christians never talk about the parts of the bible that tell people to MURDER children that are disobediant ” contain both a lie (Christians DO talk about what that mean in context) and then an out-of-context statement that you cherry-picked.
Your last paragraph is either a lie or an unproven statement (calling me someone who reject evidence) and then a conclusion (I am being hypocritical) based on that lying/ unproven assumption. You then extend your criticism of me (hypocritical) to “90% of the Bible” without giving any link to a verse-by-verse analysis of 90% of the Bible, that shows it hypocritical.
And in between a dishonest begin and end, you put several other lies and cherry-picked, out-of-context statements.
Do you expect me to discuss every word in your dishonest allegations, or your link to other equally dishonest claims? You did not even check the facts on the things you claim in your comment to be true. How can you check out the (un)truth of the rest of the website you link to?
9.
Retha | August 28, 2009 at 10:58 pm
The day I noticed and approved Joe’s comment (thus making it appear to you, my blog visitors), I sent Joe an e-mail to say his comment appeared and was answered. He thus knows of my answer, but apparently chooses not to react to this answer.
10.
TJJ | October 21, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Atheists and agnostics don’t consider their world views to be religions, so it makes perfect sense that they would select “no religion”. From what I gather, the very few atheist/agnostic answers were write-in responses.