Vox Day is wrong about woman, part 5: How women rate themselves

Vox claim #6)  …most women overrate themselves by at least two points because they rate themselves by their hottest-ever hookup rather than by the average of their past romantic record.

If that claim was true, > a prostitute who once serviced a rather attractive man in a Mercedes will have a better self image than a married woman, married to the none-too-attractive, just-getting-by-financially man who was her only sex partner.

> And the unhappily married woman will have a better self image than the virgin.

> Molested girls will have a better self image than unmolested ones, etc.

Other idea, added later:
I think this is perhaps how the perception of how women rate their desirability (not themselves – their whole personhood; Vox makes his statement several orders of magnitude wronger by replacing “their desirability to men” with “themselves”) happens:
(Note: I hate speaking of humans as if they should be measured on a state of 1 to 10 by physical attractiveness, there are much more important things to judge people by. But I am answering a type of claim that speaks of humans that way.)

1) Men tend to rate themselves as more attractive than they are.

2) Women tend to rate themselves as less attractive than they are.

3) Men are more likely than women to select a mate on physical hotness.

So, Mr. 5-who-thinks-himself-a-7 approaches Miss  7-who-thinks-herself a 5. She rejects him for a reason that is not his looks. He thinks: “Who does she think she is, rejecting a guy who is as hot as her? She probably rates herself a 9 or something.”

18 thoughts on “Vox Day is wrong about woman, part 5: How women rate themselves

  1. Re: Vox Day’s claim- Now there’s a sad example of the “I think like this, therefore everyone else must think like this too” logic fail. O_o

    I’ve heard the guy’s name (or pseudonym according to wiki) before but really haven’t listened to/read/watched anything of his: Do people actually take this guy seriously?
    He’s revealing a lot more about himself than about what woman actually think when he writes this nonsense.

      • Hello

        Yes you are right. Originally women were supposed to be man’s “helpmate” . IMHO the sexual revolution combined with
        a “twisting” of the original intent of the Women’s rights movement
        has led men to “abandon” their duties. Men are more relucatant to for example physically protect a woman Women are not viewed as “precious” anymore.Men are not required to “grow up” and take on responsibility.

      • Yes, the sexual revolution was roundabout the opposite of what was needed. Before, people looked down on female sleeping around and pretty much made light of male sleeping around. The message of the revolution was to make light of both. But the effects of sleeping around on society is such that the opposite was needed: Male sleeping around, after all, is as harmful as female sleeping around. There is no way to say that, when a man and woman consensually sleep together, any effect on society comes from what she did and not what he did.
        About being a helpmate, people sadly seriously misunderstand the great Bible truth conveyed there: http://newlife.id.au/equality-and-gender-issues/a-suitable-helper/
        (Interestingly enough, I was working on 2 blog posts yesterday and both relate to your comment: The one relates to a problem that the sexual revolution suggested the wrong solution for, but that is still some way from ready. The other is on the meaning of help meet for him, a text you mention in your comment. That one is now up on Biblical Personhood.)

      • Hello

        All the sex revolutiion did was give easy access to women’s bodies!
        If one woman would not satsfy your needs then another would.
        You weren’t forced to wait for the one you wanted. And Boy you really better have wanted her! That attitude would cause a man to commit (andf we all know a man’s resistance to commitment). And wth the attitude towards divorce you really thought seriously about what the heck you were doing.With all the Feminazi’s around these days and the way the courts treat the man do you wonder why men don’t get married. From what i understand in the garden of eden the man and the woman were realitively “even”. After the fall the Lord told Eve that “her deisre would be to her husband and he will rule over you”.

      • I agree. As long as people understand that God predicted she will desire him and he will rule (effects of sin on people’s hearts) and never commanded it, that is true. Christians should fight the effects of the fall where they can.

      • Hello

        From what i understand you are right God did not command that man “rule” over his wife. It is a RESULT of the fall. So is pain in childbirth and thorns and thistles.

  2. Hello
    Not trying to be an a**hole but most men that I know(and I am a man)
    are pretty sure that his wrtings are pretty accurate.

    • I don’t see you as one, Brandon. It is a pity that many men have such nonsensical, evidently wrong ideas. But that tells me that they speak too little with real women about their real values.
      Perhaps such men say more of themselves than about the women? It is highly probable men who think that are from hook-up culture, theorizing why women don’t sleep with them. They overrate their desirability, or the desirability of short term hook-ups in general to women, and when women say no, they believe that the woman overrated herself to not want him. (Basically, this theory seems all about calling even women who say “no” to sleeping with you sl*ts.)
      But then, even people from some conservative Christian groups are so much discouraged from talking to actual women, that it is really common – not just in hook-up culture – to have provably stupid notions about the opposite sex.

      • @Retha- Are these notions really nonsensical or are women’s standards just higher than mens ? Men of course view women in a short term paradigm (who will sleep with me) and women long term (marriage) most often. Men become EXTREMELY selective when considering long term. Men give their freedom away the way women used to give away their bodies-TO NO ONE!
        I have read the list of what many women require these days in a spouse. Unrealistic to say the least ! Women are often heard to complain about the dearth of men. Men do the same thing believe me.Speaking to REAL women will never give someone the truth about how one really feels.

      • I think it is both. It is nonsensical to think women judge themselves by the “hottest” guy they slept with, and often true that women are more careful in choosing partners.
        In marriage, I learn from your reasons why men are selective. There are of course several reasons why women are selective in marriage. Among them is the reason that they more often think about children and their welfare even before having them (note the more often, not always), and that men are generally bigger and stronger and more assertive (but no smarter and with no better hearts on average) than women. So the wrong man can make life harder for her than the reverse. (The latter may also be why women feel the need to divorce more often.) In fact, Vox seem to endorse a culture that believe women should submit even to cruelty and wrong decisions the man makes. See the letter this article starts with. It is testimony of a woman from that culture: http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/woman-and-man-in-gods-design-my-response-to-joy-magazine/
        In hook-up culture, I am no expert. But I recently read that women are more careful because men know intercourse will be enjoyable, and the woman only think it will be when the guy seems to know about how to please her. They don’t rate their value by their hottest previous partner, but for their own pleasure choose men whom they think will make it good.

    • Oh, and I have read excerpts from his writing on women to my father, to a man who used to blog with me, and to a male friend, long ago. They all said it was nonsense, and not how normal men think.

      Once upon a time, I talked on an Internet dating site to a guy that I really found, personality-wise by what he said, the most compatible guy I ever spoke to, Heinrich. After our conversation went really well, I linked Heinrich to an article Vox use as base for much of what he say (it was from a guy named Roissy – to lazy to look up the spelling now) to ask his opinion. Right there, Heinrich’s negative answer to that -“how could I even wonder about nonsense like that?”, etc. was the last time Heinrich ever e-mailed me. He wanted nothing to do with me after that. My lesson that day: Not ignoring Vox could be hazardous to your dating life.

      • Sorry to say but asking your father and a male friend will never give you the true answer! Mlost men (and a few women) that i know agree with Vox.Sorry whether it’s nonsense or not it is a deeply held belief.

      • Why would men not tell me the truth? Do you think they are naturally dishonest?
        No matter how many people agree with Vox, it is evidentially not true that prostitutes have a better self-image than virgins or that molested girls respect themselves more than unmolested ones.

      • @Retha- Where to start ? Men’s opinons agree for the most part with Vox because unfortunately their true(not “nonsensical”).Women judge their 1 to 10 scale desirability by the most attractve man that they have “dated”.The rational that you present that women who are prostitutes must have a better self image than virgins if Vox is to be believed is in my view “non sensical”. Men that you describe agreeing with are not like any that i know. Men are not innately liars but they have a “protective” gene for women that can be best described as the same way a woman looks at a child.

  3. Brandon, your assertion is way truer than Vox’s!
    You say

    Women judge their 1 to 10 scale desirability by the most attractve man that they have “dated”.

    He says:

    most women overrate themselves by at least two points because they rate themselves by their hottest-ever hookup rather than by the average of their past romantic record.

    1) Women’s desirability to men is not women themselves. Women are bigger than their desirability to men. God sees them as more. Every woman I know sees herself as more. Men whose hearts are bigger than their you-know-what-parts (most men) know they are more. That makes your claim more sensible than what Vox said.
    2) You may have a definition of attractive that is much bigger than his definition of hot. The things that attract a woman to a man is much more than physical “hot”ness.
    3) “Dating” (I am not sure what you mean by putting it in quotes) probably have a meaning that – together with “their desirability” instead of “themselves” makes the prostitute/ virgin example irrelevant to what you assert. Hook-up, on the other hand, makes prostitution relevant to what Vox asserts.
    4) You do not compare to anything else by which women rate their desirability. Not comparing often makes a statement more true. For example “People spend money on olives” is truer than “people spend more money on olives than on cars.”
    I am certain you are not 100% right – after all, a 70-year old woman is a woman, and she does not rate her desirability by the hottest man she dated 50 years ago, and it common for Christian women to believe that by staying pure (even though some desirable men won’t date them) they make themselves more desirable as a marriage partner.
    But you at least avoid Vox’s major flaw of replacing women’s desirability with women themselves, and that makes yours at least 5 times better.

    And I believe you that most decent guys (like decent gals) are protective against those who need it – male, female, or children. Right now, I want to protect/ defend two men: My father and my friend had no reason to lie. What they said did not protect me in any way. In fact, if they lied to me they “endangered” me in the sense that I am a blogger who could get ridiculed on the Internet if I blog nonsense. But we agree on the important thing here: These are good guys who would protect when needed. They are not natural liars who lie for no reason.

    • Hello

      Well…Thank you! I now realize that i don’t completely agree wth Vox.
      When I was suggesting that women rate themselves realitive to the most attractive man that they have dated i mean in context, for example in recent times. I can tell you this the sexes are at war such as i have not seen in a long time. The MRA sites suggest that either men don’t get married or they go overseas.

      • Yeah, the distrust and mistreatment and inequality (sometimes war) between the sexes is terrible. I am sure the solution does not lay in talking about “men are … [insert bad qualities]” or “women are … [insert bad qualities]” I hate to read that kind of website.
        I think that we should start by seeing others as made in God’s image like us, loved by God (he loves both the converted and unconverted) like we are, and also made because the world needs the potential inside them. Yes, both people of the opposite sex and our own could hurt us sometimes, nobody ever said this world will be without hurt. But that is no reason to speak badly of all (wo)men.
        We should respectfully listen to the opposite sex. As in: when I want to know what men think, I will not ask women. In fact, if I want to know what Pete think, I’d ask Pete rather than Paul. When a man wants to know what a woman think, likewise. Neither all women nor all men think the same.
        Although many men, I am aware, are afraid of marriage, statistics suggest they can improve their chances of a happy and lasting marriage significantly by approaching it right.
        One part of the right approach is equality: In one study 82% of hierarchal marriages were described as unhappy by the hierarchal couples, 81% of marriages where spouses regarded themselves and their partners as equals were described as happy. A few other factors that decreases the chance of divorce is found here: http://www.divorcereform.org/real.html and here: http://inductivist.blogspot.com/2009/09/alphas-betas-and-marital-status.html It is so sad that men, instead of doing what is needed to improve their chances, go for foreign women who cannot even speak their language, who cannot be a sounding board for their ideas and dreams… Being understood is a great aphrodisiac, and they do not have that.

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