Why consent is not enough in BDSM

The first time Louise encountered Bondage, Domination, Sadism and Masochism on the Internet, she was revolted. How could anybody treat another human like that? She was so disgusted, that the pictures kept replaying in her mind.

And then a strange thing happened. From the replaying of these pictures in her mind, she starts to find them … dare I say it? She starts to find them arousing. This is a surprise to her, as previous pain in her life made her somewhat immune to sexual responses.

Now, Louise’s reaction is not abnormal at all. The female body reacts to the possibility of rape by at least making the chances of injury less. Her physical arousal at the thought of sexual violence does not mean Louise wants to be raped, but the opposite: Her body wants to be unhurt.

“So”, she thinks, “I am not that abnormal? I can respond sexually?” She still knows this pornography is degrading and ugly, but  she also know that she responds sexually to it.

Confused, she meets James. Now, Louise have always been too impressionable for her own good, and that have been taken advantage of before. James tell her that she is utterly and completely wrong, and he dismisses her cautions, and argue with her view that BDSM is revolting and ugly.

Or actually, James, who don’t call himself a “dominant” for nothing, is smarter than that. He does not tell her she is wrong. He tells her she is right. At least, he calls the part of her that get aroused by BDSM right and good. James purposefully influences this suggestible young woman away from all her cautions. Because James likes to beat and degrade women, and for that he needs a woman to stay with him for his insults and degradation.

And although Louise is choosing to do what James say, it is not a free choice. Her consent is influenced by listening to one-sided advice from a sadist who stands to gain if she chooses BDSM, not from considering advice by neutral people.

James tells Louise what web sites he want her to look at. The captions next to some pictures talks of kidnapping, rape, and torturing girls who do not want it. Objectively, Louise knows these things are wrong. But hey, the captions are just fantasies, aren’t they? Louise learns to enjoy reading these things. But if she “enjoys” rape and torture, does it not make sense that James should be allowed to do things to her that come ever closer to rape and torture?

James tells Louise to kneel before him and recite these words:

“Master, I am your slave and property. My only purpose for living is to please Master. Every breath I take is granted by You.”

And this re-enforces the thought in Louise’s mind: “I exist to please him. To refuse consent would be to miss my purpose. My purpose in life, regardless of what I want or need, is to think of his wants and needs.” And her capacity to freely choose consent or non-consent is diminished even more.

James talk of himself as deserving her obedience. He also talks of her as deserving punishment when she fails at a task he gives her, or forgets to perform it.

Now, Louise does not enjoy punishment beatings. They would not be punishments if she did. She endures them because she believe she deserves them, and she believes he deserves to give them. Objectively, Louise does not deserve punishment when she fails at a task, or refuse to do what he say. BDSM is supposed to be consensual: She should be allowed to disobey him whenever she does not want to consent. He should not punish her if she disobey, because she is simply exercising her right of non-consent.

But all this talk of “deserving” to be punished diminishes her capacity to resist even further.

He lets her do things in public that makes it harder to look people straight in the eye, head held upright. He isolates her from friends. Increasingly, the only validation people-pleasing Louise gets is when James tell her things like: “You know, [objectifying expletive noun deleted], you are so beautiful to me when you take a whipping like that willingly.”

Later, Louise is “consenting” to things she used to find disgusting to even read about. And she tells herself that she allowed it, that James loves her because of the “you are so beautiful …” comments. While her true natural reaction to these things were horror when she first encountered it, James convinced her that their lifestyle is “giving in to her true nature.” Louise gradually replaces all her dreams with dreams of pleasing the woman beater who dominates her.

That is my problem with consent in BDSM. Many components of these lifestyles seems to be about weakening the resolve of someone who may be too submissive to start with:

> One-sided messages whereby BDSM people refuse to acknowledge disgust as a valid moral reaction to some of the things pictured in BDSM, but only validates positive reactions to their lifestyle. (Before you tell me that disgust with violent pornography is wrong because the content is consensual, the captions on much of BDSM porn imply kidnapping, rape and physical abuse the victim did not want. To that you may or may not add the complaint in this blog entry.)

> “No” and “stop” not working as safe words, suggesting to the submissive that the dominant likes to continue when asked to stop.

> Actions like kneeling, the submissive having to say things which put her lower than the “master”, the “master” using sexually objectifying terms for the slave.

> Dishonest terms like how the master “deserves” worship or the slave “deserves” punishments. The slave learning to write of Him (capital letter) and i (no capital), the master to write of Me and My slave and O/our relationship.

> Slaves being isolated from, or embarrassed in front of other people, so that the “master”could have less competition for their heart and mind.

And in between the constant barrage of heavy-handed messages (the part of you that dislike this is wrong/ saying “no” or “stop” is useless/ you ought to obey/ you deserve punishment when you do not obey/ you exist to do what he say/ you are pretty when you suppress your need to get away from pain/ no other relationship should be important except the one with the sadist/ you are a sex object/ you wanted this/ you belong on your knees below him) there seem to be just enough “but you can say no if you want to” to keep the very impressionable submissive from running straight to the police with multiple rape and assault complaints.

If BDSM was really all about sane consent to things the submissive also enjoy, no submissive would allow a punishment beating.

—————————————————

PS: The writer is aware that not all submissives are female or all dominants male. This piece was written with “he” for dominants and “she” for submissives for the sake of simplicity.

Once again, please do not link to BDSM material in your comments, or to your BDSM blog from your name.

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38 thoughts on “Why consent is not enough in BDSM

  1. Retha says:

    Another thought: With every command Louise submits to, every lash of the whip she takes, she is investing in the relationship. The more you invest in something – financially, emotionally, or time-wise, the harder it is to say: “This is not working!” and to just walk away.
    People will rationalize a lot, and tell themselves and others this is working and they have what they want, rather than to admit that a big investment was unwise.

  2. Dariah says:

    What you have described it abuse and not BDSM. I have read both of your articles on the subject, and I am sorry but they are very shallow.

    • Retha says:

      I agree half way with you. You are right that what I described is abuse. I am so glad we agree that even with Louise as a consenting adult, you agree it could still be abuse. But what part of my descriptions is not part of BDSM:
      >Would nobody in BDSM encourage someone who gets aroused by such pornography to try BDSM?
      >Does the captions and words on some BDSM pornography not imply kidnapping, rape, and torture?
      >Is BDSM opposed to calling anyone master or slave, to kneeling, to promising to obey, etc.?
      >Are there never any punishment beatings in BDSM?
      >Does nobody in BDSM consent to things they would have found degrading some years earlier? Things like writing Him with a capital letter and i without?
      >Does subs not invest in the relatiuonship by obeying?

      In short: What I described is abuse. It is also, – unless every BDSM blog and website and practitioner and previous BDSM practicing commenter on this blog lie about what happens in BDSM relationships – BDSM.

      Rather than telling me my idea is shallow and wrong, tell me what is deep and list which of my statements are untrue.
      —————
      PS: (While writing the kneeling and promising to obey part of the story above, I actually thougth of a particular scene, described on the blog of Bondagegirl (18), commenter on my previous entry, between her and her boyfriend (38):
      He told her to memorize a set of words that is degrading towards her and exalting towards him. She did. He comes to her and she kneels to recite them. She forgets them out of fear – she knew them before he entered. He gives her a punishment beating for forgetting words out of fear. It is her second punishment beating of the day. Would you say Bondagegirl don’t practice BDSM?
      I also thought of doms I spoke to elsewhere, who said: “If I did not deserve this treatment, she would not have treated me this way.” Did you know that a sense of entitlement – an idea that you deserve superior treatment – is one of the main signs of an abuser?)

  3. Mysubmissiveeyes says:

    As someone who is a submissive I feel like you’re wrong for many people. Though admittedly not all. I myself am in a relationship where I feel abused (it is something we are working on and not ignoring). I’m with someone who can’t handle my emotional neediness and I can’t handle his emotional isolation. I do refer to him as Sir. However I clearly don’t alter proper punctuation to exalt him. He is the father of my child and I put my family first. I was put on this earth to have and serve my family. How is that ungodly. I feel abused because he won’t punish me. He won’t give me rewards such as the positive attention I seek. I want to be on a system like this. I want to please my spouse more then anyone else in this world. How is that unchristian?

    • Retha says:

      I will really think and pray about a wise answer. I never said that all BDSM relationships are the same or has all these ingredients, but I do say that BDSM influences both the dom and the sub towards false ideas of who they are and where they belong. I have a strong suspicion that if I have any of the answers you need it is not here, but rather on my Biblical Personhood blog.
      Here is a start of one page of links on said blog: http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/christian-myths-on-gender-and-gender-roles/

      I admire your desire to do as God say, but I think some people lied to you about His message. I hate messages that keeps some of God’s people in bondage while Jesus came to

      “proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” Luk 4:18-19

      You expect your husband to punish you, but God said he should love you as Christ love the church. Christ did not choose punishments for the church: He took the punishments that was planned for them on himself.
      Yes, you and him should mutually give each other positive attention. But wanting to please your spouse more than anyone else in the world can be idolatry – God is everywhere, including this world. Depending on the way you do it, you could also encourage his bad and selfish qualities, thereby making him a less Christian man. Wanting him to punish you, to cause you pain, is certainly to distract him from compassion and Christlike qualities.

      About calling him sir, perhaps Sarah’s name for Abraham was referenced in 1 Peter because he was also told to call her a respectful name. She used to be Sarai – contentious; she became Sarah – princess or female ruler.Abraham was also told to obey her on at least one occasion. http://2dig.wordpress.com/sarah/even-as-sara-obeyed-abraham-calling-him-lord/ And both genders were made to rule over the earth! (Gen 1:27-28)

    • ebassett@telus.net says:

      Christian? We are to submit “in the Lord”. Good grief…can you see Jesus in this picture? You should perhaps read I cor.13 and get an idea about what love looks like. A husband is to love his wife like Jesus loves the church. Do you see anywhere where he degrades His people? He is the one who took the pain and shame to the cross so that we can be free. You are worth more than this. To be well you have to own your own stuff. This is the opposite of what God wants for you. You are precious to Him. You are not to this man. I am not blaming it all on him. He is sick also.

  4. Mysubmissiveeyes says:

    I love bdsm and want so much more from my bdsm relationship. This is something I decided on my own. Long before I ever met my Dom (who is the only Dom I’ve ever had).

    • Retha says:

      BDSM is a wide word. What exactly do you love? I know some people love it, but people love a lot of things which are not all good.

      • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

        Well with out fully wanting to get into the sexual details I really enjoy submitting. Sexually especially. I might not always like the things he asks. But I do like that he likes it. The thing is we don’t do anything with extreme pain or anything. I beg for him to spank more. I truly want it. But he doesn’t. I’m trying to accept that. Which clearly isn’t the most submissive thing. I have looked into domestic discipline yes.

        In my eyes it’s much better then the cold shoulder or a fight. If he’s angry I’d rather he spanks me and forgives me then not speaking to me for a few days. I realize that that’s not necessarily a healthy way to deal with anger in a relationship and am desperately trying to get away from this method. We lack serious communication skills. It’s a work in progress and something that does need to be dealt with for the sake of our son. We’re getting there. But those problems aren’t bdsm related.

        Sexually yes I like being “forced” and tied. But realistically that’s my sex life not yours. Everyone’s different. And it doesn’t happen near as often as I’d like it to. Now I’m not condoning rape. I’m not suggesting that woman shouldn’t have rights etc.

        On the note of rights….woman’s right to vote. I’m not going to lie I am happy voting as I’m told. I don’t really follow politcs that much and my husband does. I’m happy with him telling me how to vote. He doesn’t but I’d like it. Then I know that at least my vote is an informed decision that will benefit my family. Now I hope no one takes that as I don’t appreciate my right to vote. Maybe I don’t enough by not following politics. I just find it frustrating and aggrivating.

        Anyways. I don’t know if that gives you some insight? Ask more questions. I’m happy to answer.

  5. tiro3 says:

    I cannot say that I know all there is to know on this subject. But I do know something about human psychology. Retha, you are right on that the more one looks into, walks into, yields their minds and bodies to can become addictive and seem pleasurable.

    But one question comes to mind for a Christian, does it draw one closer to Christ. No it does not. That is impossible. What God wants for every human being who believes and trusts in Him is to become like Him, a mature believer who will do the works that Christ did and more. A person who will use their strengths to help others come to know Christ as Savior.

    Addictive dependent behavior either for the controller or for the subservient is not healthy for anyone, least of all for a Christian.

    • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

      I feel like being a Christian is about believing in God while serving others. Not every single thing we do is about God. Maybe for some. But not for most. Being a good Christian is about being a good person. A helpful person. I am no less of a person nor less of a good person based on things that arouse me.

  6. tiro3 says:

    I would say that being a good Christian is about living a life that exemplifies and praises Christ to the world. It is much more than being a “good” person. Who decides what is good or not good. God has written in His Scriptures what is good and that is what we are to follow. Lot’s of good people do not believe in nor worship Jesus Christ as Savior. The only way to the throne of God is through God’s Only begotten Son, Christ Jesus.

    My Submissive, just because you chose to allow yourself to be aroused by some things does not make it desirable or good. Humans can be aroused by both wicked and insane things as well as lessor harmful but nonetheless harmful things.

    I believe that what you have allowed yourself to be drawn into is harmful to you and to your mate. It does not praise God. It does not prepare your heart and soul for the spiritual blessings that God wants for your life. God has things and spiritual blessings waiting for you that far surpass what you are experiencing now.

  7. tiro3 says:

    Certainly. But let me ask you a question. Do you know what the manifestations of the Holy Spirit are?

    • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

      Vaguely. I was a fairly devout catholic as a teen. Lately my thoughts are more that faith isn’t about sitting in a pew and following a bible that wasn’t put together by God but by man.

      Religion is flawed because man is flawed. I’m a Christian but I’m not a bible thumper

  8. tiro3 says:

    The Bible is not flawed Mysubmissive. As one who has studied the Bible for many years very prayerfully, I can assure you that it is the translators that mess things up. I always go back to the original languages and research historical applications. Remember that it was written in Greek (New Testament) 2000 yrs ago, and in Hebrew (Old Testament) 3500 years ago. It was not written to 20th century believers. We can apply it better when we understand this.

    The Bible is the sweetest book in all of human history telling deeply of God’s great love for us as humans. We really cannot figure out the deep things of God all by ourselves. We need the words God sent to us by His anointed men and women prophets and leaders.

    🙂

    • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

      What about all the sections of the bible that were left out. The Bible is but a few selections of writings that humans found and deemed worthy. There are hundreds of scriptures out there that aren’t even included. Such as a scroll found that would be the gospel according to Thomas. He says Jesus said “The kingdom of God is within you and all around you. It is not within buildings of wood or stone. split a piece of wood and you will find me. Look beneath a stone and I am there.” It’s been argued that the church left this out simply because its telling people that going to church and following everything exactly so isn’t what’s important. Then where will the parishioners and money come from? Now I’m certainly not saying never go to church. But I know many people who think them being there every Sunday makes them better then someone such as myself who isn’t there constantly. Yet I also know some of these people are cheaters and liars. Are you saying the things that bring me and my loved one close and my want to serve and make my family happy are worse then those who cheat and lie? I don’t necessarily think that’s what you’re saying. Yet in a sense. They don’t like bdsm so I feel like you think that’d make them better. And it certainly does not.

      The Bible can be interpreted many many different ways. Ie the west boro baptist church. Picketing funerals of those that fought for their country and the children that were shot last fall. They claim this is Gods work. I don’t think so.

      Another example of an interpretation of the Bible is the monk in the Davinci code that practices self mutilation to remember the wounds that Jesus suffered.

      Who’s to say that the bible is as God willed it and there’s not important information missing. There’s so many possibilities we can’t possibly imagine. So are we supposed to live our lives and serve him and our families happily? Or should we drift thru life missing an important part of who we are?

      • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

        Also as a side note. I am actually seeing a councillor who knows about my submission. She’s fairly knowledgeable on it and has told me that being a submissive is just as much a part of who we are as being gay. We are or we aren’t. We can try to ignore it but its always in the back of our minds. Wanting. I realize the unknown is scary and it’s something that’s difficult to understand. I’m by no means saying you should run out and join me and my practices. All I’m trying to do is state how I see it. Maybe if you see it through “my submissive eyes” 😉 it can help someone understand.

  9. Retha says:

    The things that arouses someone sexually, by itself, does not make anyone a bad person, not even those who are aroused by preschoolers. But acting on some desires certainly does.
    Every act a person chooses to do influences the kind of person he is. A man who acts rough in the bedroom, even at the encouragement of his wife, is turning himself into a less sensitive, more callous person. It could logically lead to him blunting his emotions, to care less about emotional and other needs. It is not good to encourage that in a man (or woman, for that matter.)
    As for a woman who choose to indulge a desire to be dominated, that sounds to me like giving in to a drug desire. Drug addicts may have a thousand desires to achieve goals, to buy nice things, to look a certain way, etc., of which a drug desire is one. But a drug desire may slurp up all desire to achieve, may make you spend your money on drugs and not the other things you want, may cause your looks to deteriorate. Similarly, a desire to comply, sexually or otherwise, to the things someone else asks (whether you like it or not, whether these are good or bad) may override a lot of other good desires and, depending on what he asks of you and how you feel about it, truly hurt your personhood, and even the people around you, in the long run.
    (I know, some Christian woman will say that doing everything the man asks is submission. But Christian submission is different from BDSM submission:
    God tells all believers to submit to one another. But God never tells anyone to dominate. Jesus say that believers should not lord it over others. (Mat 20:25-27; Mar 10:42-44; Luke 22:25-26) Submission in Christianity is not a case of doms and subs, but subs and subs, being submitted to other believers – with them also submitted to you and each other. This kind of submission is not about obeying every command, http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/%e2%80%9cwives-submit-%e2%80%9d-how/ but about loyally caring what is good for the other, even when you do not obey them.
    Contrary to popular belief, the Christian God never told men to rule women or households, anywhere in the Bible. http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/how-ofte-does-the-bible-say-men-should-be-the-heads-of-their-households/ But the Bible does say that the bodies of couples belong to each other (1 Cor 7:4) – it gives a motivation for both to submit as “owned” people, but for neither to Lord it over the other.)
    I am glad to see you admit that DD may not be the best way to deal with conflict. I personally think it makes the one who punishes a lesser person, as I already described. I am also glad to see you rate the interests of the people around you highly. I have encountered submissive women who would not even protect their children from a molester or abuser who is their partner, as they rate submission higher than caring about people’s true needs. That is downright evil, regardless of whether the submissive’s motives is emotional, practical or religious.
    Your low opinion of the Bible is a separate topic, and I may address it later.

  10. gregoreo says:

    I partially agree with the first comment- this blog post doesn’t describe BDSM very well. But not because this post describes abuse and BDSM is so wonderful. It’s because BDSM is usually more extreme than this post describes.

    This is D/s- Dominance and submission. SM is about the pain, but D/s is all about the CONTROL and the ABSOLUTE TRUST, which Mysubmissiveeyes longs to give. Longs for it. Hungers for it.

    But mysubmissiveeyes-, tiro and Retha are so right in what they are saying here.

    And here is the reality: Any Dom you find, *any* of them- are human, and flawed. They will eventually let you down. Jesus never will.

    You’re right about domestic discipline- it settles the argument and avoids the cold shoulder or fight, because it is settled and forgiven. But it only works because the Dom is always right. But is he really perfect and always right in everything he ever says and does? Again… he’s human and flawed. He can and does make mistakes. Jesus isn’t flawed. Jesus doesn’t make mistakes.

    In The Faith, the Bible says that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrightousness. It says that if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. We are forgiven instantly because he took our punishment. No fight. No cold shoulder. It’s settled, forgiven, done. Relationship restored. Perfectly.

    He is the One you’re trying to find in all this. He is “The Sir”. You see, Sir and Lord are the same word, did you know that? In Spanish, it’s Señor. Seriously! In the Spanish Bible, every time it says, “The Lord” the Spanish Bible says “El Señor”, because The Lord means “The Sir.” It’s HIM! He is the One you’ve been looking for!

    He is the One to submit to. He is the One that is always right. He is the One worthy of the capital letter. Though here is the crazy part: He lets you keep your capital letter too, because He took the whip of punishment so that you don’t have to. ( http://tinyurl.com/d5kx6pz )

    Listen… doesn’t this sound like home?

    Psalm 95- Come, let us worship and bow down,
    Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.
    For He is our God,
    And we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand.
    Today, if you would hear His voice,
    Do not harden your hearts

    There is so much submission in the Bible, in the Faith. So much worship and adoration. It truly is what you were made for. You just have to place your ABSOLUTE TRUST in the Perfect One, and give all CONTROL to Him.

    He is the Sir. There is no other.

    • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

      To me The Lord is Lord and my Dom is Sir. I respect them both. However you don’t think I’m cared about deeply? I am respected. My needs are met. I live in a beautiful household where we might not have everything we want but we sure have everything we need and I am able to stay at home and raise our son. Because that is what I want. If I choose to work that’s up to me. I’m supported. Yes maybe the fights end because I give into him. But I sure say my piece and in the end the disapline I request is because I’ve lost my temper. I might see things his way better. Maybe not. But he hears my side. I apologize for blowing up. He does not apologize or leading me to that point or letting me get that frustrated and I don’t expect it. But my concerns are heard and I see changes. It might not be a standard solution. He might not verbally admit to being “wrong” or having misjudged something. But his actions show it when they shift to help me. We make each other better people.

      Us acting on desires does not make us bad people either. We are hurting no one. (And I might add that I’ve been avoiding the dentist for years because I’m afraid of needles. So I’m kind of a wuss) and I’m not in pain. I feel certain that God has a special place in heaven for me whether I participate in bdsm or not. And is the fact that have have absolute trust in a human being so wrong? I think that would please God as well.

      • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

        Also this is not an addiction. I’m not letting other areas of my life down to feed this need. I’m not missing work nor time with my child. It does not take presidence over friends or family or faith. It is just how my partner and I relate and care for one another. It is how we are intimate and I don’t feel that it’s anyone’s place to judge that. It’d be entirely different if our d/s was affecting the world outside of us. Or our son but I assure you it doesn’t. What our son will grow up to see is two people full of love, respect, and concern for one another’s well being. That’s what the outside world should see as well.

      • Retha says:

        Unless you change (or successfully hide a big part of the truth, which is unlikely to happen) your son will see the kind of relationship I read about yesterday in a magazine. (If the magazine was in English, I’d have scanned the article and sent it to you.) The article speaks about the high incidence of violence and rape in my country, South Africa, and how to raise a son who is not violent.
        One of the most often emphasized things was: To grow up as a good man who care about others, he needs to see his parents treat each other in a non-hierarchal, respectful way.
        Your relationship gives exactly the kind of message that will influence a child towards crime and violence. You may say that he treats you with respect, but that is not what a little child see when Daddy gives commands and Mummy listens, when Mummy apologizes and Daddy does not, when Daddy does/ neglects things in a way that mummy loses her temper – and Mummy is punished for that, but Daddy is not punished for doing those things that cause the fight. How can he grow up believing in justice, when Mummy and Daddy models injustice?
        If your son grows up seeing the relationship as you describe it, and ends up a decent guy, he will have transcended his upbringing.

  11. gregoreo says:

    I understand, Mysubmissiveeyes. There is a need deep within you that is being met by your D/s relationship. I get that. What I wanted to show you were the parallels between D/s and Christianity, because they are really striking when you think about it. And there is a reason they are so similar, because one is really a substitute for the other.

    That’s why you can’t really make a distinction between The Lord and The Sir. Jesus said that you can’t serve two masters.

    • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

      Who’s said there’s injustice????? There is none. And he clearly doesn’t see anything sexual between us nor does he see the punishments I am requesting (because they are not happening as I would like yes but also because its not something he needs to see). He is growing up seeing a respectful loving relationship. He sees his father caring for him and his mother. And his mother caring for him and his father. We are not unlike other parents. In fact we have set better examples for him then many. For example his daddy quit smoking for his sake days after finding out I was pregnant because he didn’t want that for his son. Many do the same but many more dont. We set a fine example. There is nothing that makes us different from many of his friends parents aside from the fact that I’m the only mom who hasn’t gone back to work yet. I raise him instead of a daycare.

      My child doesn’t know violence. He doesn’t know disrespect. And i would like to go as far as to homeschool him to keep it this way. What he does know are compassion, love and caring for others.

      • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

        I just read your other post on the subject and I guess the big difference in our thoughts are extremes. In the other post you show a woman with marks that will last weeks and pig written across her.

        The only time I’ve ever been marked in ink it said the name of my Dom across my breasts. This was because I was going out with friends and he was nervous about me being hit on my other drunk men. Knowing I was claimed as his (there was no wedding ring to do so) made him feel good. And this is not because he doesn’t trust me, but because he enjoyed knowing I couldn’t show anyone my breasts. Again not that anyone would see then. It was just a private moment for the both of us. I enjoyed knowing it was there. And anything involving lasting pain has only ever been sore muscles from physical exertion. And mild rope marks that couldn’t be seen, just felt. I’ve never gone to extremes to be degraded like that woman in the picture. I couldn’t.

  12. Retha says:

    “Sometimes it takes time away from “normal” to see that it is indeed not normal after all. After 3 months of separation from my husband, I have new insight as to what normal is. When you are in a mentally or emotionally abusive marriage, sometimes you don’t know that your normal is not normal after all” – testimony of a woman who escaped from an abusive relationship

    Mysubmissiveeyes, I found your blog today. I cried with you when I read how he called you a [receptacle for semen]. That must have hurt like hell: You love him so much, but to him you are just an object.

    I am so sorry.
    I see no evidence that he apologized since, or told you that you are only a [receptacle for semen] in moments which is all about bodily pleasure, while you are so much more the rest of the time. I read how empty your emotional tank feel.

    As I understand it, (correct me if I am wrong) your fantasies are about being “pushed down” (insulted or treated rough or whatever) in order to be in the state where you can most appreciate the “pull up” that follow – the appreciation and tenderness we all need.

    And your partner is very bad at the “pulling up” part. You ask a push-downer, who probably enjoyed the way you broke down and cried when he called you that, to be your pick-upper.

    Because that is the part that tells me what BDSM is. Not the word “pig” on a face, but the bitter crying in the heart. Words like the one you heard written across a valuable soul. I know that you will say you are happy and respected. I also know that your first words on this blog was that you feel abused, that your partner cannot handle your emotional need for positive affirmation. I understand that comment better now: I first thought you meant you feel neglected, which lack of emotional support will be in a vanilla relationship. But for someone who want to be pushed down to low places before being picked up, the lack of the picking up part is indeed abuse.

    Mysubmissiveeyes, you are as valuable as everyone else. If he tells you that you are only good for one thing, he is lying. I can see, from your blog, you are verbally gifted. I believe you are a tender mother who cares. Which is another reason to change your life: Your child will grow up with terrible role models if he lives in a home where his father treats his mother like a [receptacle for semen]. Such an attitude is not something you can hide from your son for years. It would certainly spill over to outside the bedroom.
    You probably want to tell me now: “He did not mean it!” But the fact is that when you said it, you believed he meant it. It broke your heart. And you said that you should try to earn being regarded as more. You are more, whatever he thinks. You – like any stranger who walk past him – have the right to be treated as a human being, not an object. It is a foundational right that humans do not have to earn.

    But things will only change for you if you can see them for what they are: No, he does not respect you. If he did, you would never have felt that [receptacle for semen] is his opinion of you. Only then can you get the motivation from somewhere to improve things. Meanwhile, please be brutally honest with your therapist – don’t just mention the “he respect me” that you prefer to believe, but mention the exact treatment he gives and fails to give, and ask her to read your blog. Because the longer it is after a bad experience, the more you will probably rationalize his behaviour.

    If you believe in God, perhaps you can ask Him to fill that gaping emotional hole with His love? I’m praying for you.

    • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

      We have many problems. The first and foremost is communiction. The other is his fear to open up and be affectionate because he might be hurt. I have to say tho that neither of these are because of bdsm. Yes I want to be picked up. I want to be help him learn to trust and pick up. My heart breaks often with him. But I can assure you that this is not because of bdsm. That was the only time it was too much for me.

      That instance was intact abuse and not bdsm. A Better Dom would have seen my need for compassion in that moment and stepped up. We are far from perfect. But we are not bad people. I know if I found another Dom things might be easier. But my love for him and my son both keep me trying. And we have come a long long ways in the past few months. We had a real conversation about feelings recently and it was fantastic. It takes work but we will have something great one day. However I truly don’t want my short comings to sour your thoughts on the matter. We are far from the perfect case and I wish I had someone who was better at it to fight for bdsm. Because it truly isn’t as awful as you might see. And as I said this isn’t something our son sees. It’s behind closed bed room doors. We protect him and only allow him to see the love. It’s taken some ups and downs. He’s a year old. And in this past year we’ve learned a lot about how to do it wrong. We’re getting there. But before you cross it off look into the positives. There are a lot of screwed up people out there. Be warry. But not all cases are awful.

      • Retha says:

        I expected you to say that. But the point is: Every BDSM sub who ever spoke more than a few sentences to me, talked of some very bad things, only to say the opposite a few sentences later or earlier.

        I don’t think any of you intentionally lied. It is called cognitive dissonance: In order to justify a bad situation, you need to believe some things which are roundabout opposites. Cognitive dissonance is common in abusive relationships.

        The problem is not that too few subs have explained their relationships to me, but that too many did. And what you experienced was one reality of what happens in real life BDSM. If your husband have never confirmed in the two months since then that you are more than a [sperm receptacle], the abuse of that scene is ongoing, and will be ongoing until he repents, or until you move out. And if you say the problems are not related to BDSM – outsiders who read this blog can see the connection.

        That strong fighting spirit in you, that you want to use to fight for BDSM here – use it to fight for yourself. Believe that you are beautiful, rather than a certain sexual lifestyle.

        (Sorry for deleting your last comment. As you know, this site is not for advertising BDSM sites/ blogs. By not adding your URL to your name in the form, you kept to the rules well untill now – thank you.)

      • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

        Sorry forgot that part! That was actually the blog of someone I don’t even know. I just love the way her and her husband work things out.

        Anyways. Yes many have problems. Many vanilla relationships have problems as well. Such as the people I know from high school that go thru men faster then I go thru a bag of potatoes. And have numerous children from numerous men. Isn’t that worse then admitting one is flawed and working on a relationship?

        And he doesn’t sleep in bed with me. He spends every single night on the couch. This is something that was really difficult for me. I thought it was because I wasn’t worthy at first. But I know now he just sleeps better there. However since that incident he has come to bed. He has held me to tell me I mean more then that. That he didn’t intend for it to be hurtful. He thought I’d enjoy it. But I didn’t. And despite initial falls and not encouraging he had made me feel better since. Not near as fast as I needed. But the point is he has. It was a lesson learned. A hard one. I’ve spoken to other doms about the subject as well who believed seeing me cry was hard for him and he had a moment of anger to himself. Which is why he wasn’t able to be there for me. It was a selfish moment where my well being should have been thought of first. Yes it was all handled wrong. But the fact is I set the limit. When it was too much for me I let him know and he won’t go back there. That’s what consent is about. Finding limits and setting them. Having respect for those limits. Which I am working on as well. Because as he struggles to communicate and is trying to avoid it, I find myself cornering him to try and force him to listen. It’s not healthy. And why I’m in counselling. Learning new communication styles to make things work more smoothly.

      • Retha says:

        All the best with learning new communication styles.
        But please know that right now, I don’t believe what you tell me: You admitted youself you are “fighting for BDSM.” Now that I called the [sperm receptacle] scene wrong, you seem to be making an effort to tell me that this thing was actually made right since then. (It just happened to not be so significant that you would have blogged about it on your blog, or even mentioned it in your first defence after I mentioned that scenario. I find that hard to believe.) You may or may not be talking the truth. Just like I know all alleged criminals, innocent or guilty, will call themselves innocent, I know you will tell me things to make BDSM look better.

        But if you are actually learning to set limits, and this is not just a story to defend your husband/ lifestyle, good for you. From what I read, you would have used your safe word in that scene “if you had one”, but you did not. I hope, for your sake, you have more limits now.

      • Retha says:

        Mysubmissiveeyes, you say you are working on learning to set boundaries? That is good.
        May I recommend a book to you?: Boundaries, by Cloud and Townsend.
        Others whom I know of who thought they must always be the least, always be “nice”, found that book very helpful.

      • Mysubmissiveeyes says:

        Well a big part of that is my blog hears a lot more from me being upset then happy. There’s less need to vent. But I really need to start working on it With more positives.

  13. AWellLovedSubmissive says:

    I ran across your blog by mistake, the title of another BDSM article caught my attention, and after reading that one, this one and the comments on both, I felt a need to reply.

    I am a submissive, I have a Dom. You may see abuse in a lot of things that happen, and associate that to BDSM, but you are wrong. Abuse is abuse & BDSM is BDSM, they are not the same. There are articles and classes and support groups that help people who think they are doing what a good sub does, but have been dragged into an abusive relationship in which an abuser has used BDSM as an excuse to hurt them. What you have described above is a classic example of an abuser who claimes to practice BDSM. NOT ONE of the Dom’s I know, would attempt to isolate their submissive from friends, family or community: quite the opposite in fact.

    My Dom and I love each other very much. There is a high level of respect. He is human, and knows he is not perfect. He has made mistakes, and yes, it may shock you to know has actually apologized! Do I kneel at his feet? You bet I do. Does that make me less than him? Absolutely not. I kneel for him because I have given him a certain level of control, which I can take back the moment he abuses it. I kneel for him, because it makes us both happy. And yes, kneeling makes me happy, I’m not fooling myself into thinking that. When I meditate I do it in a kneeling position as well, and have for quite some time. The position is calming, and puts me in a certain mindset.

    You see all the negatives about a BDSM relationship, but you don’t see the positives or why it is so fulfilling for those in a healthy BDSM relationship, rather than an abusive relationship being mislabeled. And yes, I do know what I am talking about, I was married to a man who verbally and emotionally abused me for many many years, and it finally escalated to physical abuse. He tore me down, shattered my self confidence, and made me afraid to talk to people who he didn’t personally introduce me to, so I knew they were “acceptable” – he isolated me from friends, family and community. Now, I am praised, I am told what a wonderful, smart, beautiful person I am. I am encouraged to go out and meet people, to make friends, to be my own person, even to go back to school. It is a long journey, but my Dom has helped bring me out of hiding, and learn not to look at myself with disgust or as a person who deserves to be treated badly.

    What we choose to do in private, is no one else’s business. We may share our intimate lives with some friends within the BDSM lifestyle, but we aren’t shoving it down anyone’s throat.

    And to your point about punishment in response to a comment in the other blog post, you said “Dominants also enjoy punishment beatings that submissives does not, which do not make it about mutual enjoyment. They enjoy hurting people who are not enjoying the pain.” And again, you are wrong about the D/s dynamic. Dominants DO NOT enjoy giving punishment. They do it to a submissive who is willing to accept punishments as part of their relationship, in order to help the submissive correct their actions. And it is not always a beating, in some relationships I have seen, it is never a beating. I see it as no different than a parent disciplining their child, except in the BDSM relationship, the receiver has given their consent to be punished.

    I understand this is your blog, and you are entitled to your opinions. But I would hope that you wouldn’t base your view on what you see or read solely on the internet. Many video’s that claim to be BDSM are not what it’s about, any more than any other pornographic videos are really what happens between a couple that doesn’t practice BDSM.

    • Retha says:

      Thank you, I think I could start a conversation with you.
      How I saw what I did of BDSM
      Firstly, I have never seen a BDSM video in my life. Not even one. My opinion is based on what alleged BDSM participants testify to on their own blogs, as happening in their own relationships , and asking them questions and comparing that to what they tell on their blogs.
      For example, doms often answer that they deserve to be treated the way subs treat them, but cannot answer why they deserve it. That is called a sense of entitlement, which happens to be one of the attribute by which abusers can be spotted even before starting to abuse. Another dom said in response to my question: “I respect my sub’s opinion, even when I ignore it.” (Where is the evidence of respect, then?)
      It is also based on conversations with people like Bondagegirl, Mysubmissiveeyes, and others who freely choose to defend BDSM on this blog. One of them, for example, looked at a photo of a tied sub bitterly crying and said callously that as long as she wants it, nothing is wrong with either her or her partner. The woman is crying. She is unhappy, for goodness sake! That makes me wonder if the BDSM community actually care about abuse in the name of BDSM. Will they see an actual crying woman and also say that there is no reason to interfere when she is “happy?”

      BDSM and abuse
      I take note of your statement that isolation is not part of BDSM (but is bondage not a form of isolation, then?) But even without the isolation part, would you agree the James/ Louise scenario is still ugly?
      You say that abuse and BDSM is distinctly different, but you also say that abuse can be mistaken for BDSM by people who want a BDSM relationship. And my currently newest blog post describe the definition of domestic abuse, and several BDSM components (bondage, control, causing pain or fear) counts as domestic abuse. After reading point 1 of my newest post, can you really come back and tell me that nothing that can be considered abuse is present in BDSM relationships? You are welcome to describe the things that you call BDSM, but which are not abuse.
      Do you know of even one BDSM relationship that does not contain any warning signs of abusers, like controlling behaviour, “playful” use of force in sex, verbal abuse; rigid sex roles (man above, woman lower); or a sense of entitlement (many doms say they “deserve” the treatment the sub gives them)? What BDSM components are present in that relationships, then?
      What you defend
      It seems to me that you defended discipline and dominance/ submission. Do you practice bondage, sadism and masochism, and can you defend those? But I am interested in your defences, and would like to ask some questions. Especially since you said ” you [meaning me] don’t see the positives or why it is so fulfilling”, and you still have to mention the positive part of BDSM. (Being praised and told how wonderful and smart you are is not, as I understand it, BDSM, even though it is also allegedly part of your relationship.)

    • Retha says:

      Your relationship
      I am very sorry to hear that you come from an abusive relationship. For now, I will reserve judgment on abuse in this one, but it sadly often happens that abuse victims have abusive relationships again.
      About your current relationship, did you start kneeling before him, and all other things that qualify as BDSM, in a time when you still looked at yourself “with disgust”, as “a person who deserves to be treated badly?” Would you say those things influenced you in choosing a partner?
      Here is what I see about the kneeling thing: It seems you kneel because you “gave him a certain level of control.” You do not think of the meaning of kneeling beyond “he asks it, he is in control, he gets it.” But – what is he thinking, what does kneeling mean to him? I mean, he could control equally much by ordering you to stand on the same height as him (the shorter one of you two on some kind of box) to look him straight in the eyes and say: “I am as important as you, my desires count as much as yours.” Or, for that matter, by making you kneel before the mirror and telling you: “See? There is someone whose needs you should submit to at least as much as mine.” Or by ordering you to help at a soup kitchen. But he seemingly chooses to let you kneel before him. That probably mean that, despite what he says, he finds narcissistic pleasure in thinking of you as lower. If he respected you as an equal, he would not have let you kneel before him. As for making you happy, is it a case of liking to kneel and being willing to kneel before me or anyone, or just believing it is a suitable part of this particular relationship?
      punishment
      About punishment beatings, I am willing to believe that even though some doms are sadists (sadism is, after all, part of the BDSM definition), others do not like to punish. But since the point of the argument you quote from was how BDSM is not about mutual consent to things both enjoy, a not-enjoying dom will make the point even more true.

      You said:

      “Dominants DO NOT enjoy giving punishment. They do it to a submissive who is willing to accept punishments as part of their relationship, in order to help the submissive correct their actions. And it is not always a beating, in some relationships I have seen, it is never a beating. I see it as no different than a parent disciplining their child, except in the BDSM relationship, the receiver has given their consent to be punished.”

      You compare BDSM punisments to a parent-child relationship? Well, one sub who commented on this blog, Bondagegirl, describe a punishment scenario like this on her blog: She (18 yrs) had to learn a mantra which degrades herself and exalts the dom (38 yrs old). She did. She knelt before him to recite the words, but forgot them out of fear. (Fear is her word, not mine.) He never asked why she forgot, but gave her a punishment beating, the second punishment beating of the day for her. She blogged that under a header like: “Did I deserve to be punished?”
      Is it okay to punish children for forgetting words out of fear, or even to make a child recite words that degrades herself and exalts the parent? Is she really “willing to accept punishments … to correct [her] actions” if she writes “did I deserve this?” And was this an action that needs to be corrected? Do children have to get naked for punishments, and is there a sexual component to it? And subs? You may be different, but I would prefer not to associate sex with punishment.

      Another thing about punishments in a parent-child relationship: Such punishment is given with the knowledge that you have a few years’ window to give them in. By a certain age the child should be able to cope with behavior without a parent punishing him. (All authority of parent over child ceases at a certain stage.) Is BDSM, likely, aimed at bringing the sub to where punishment is inappropriate? At having dom/sub authority cease later?

      As I see it, punishing children works in one of 2 ways: a) Even while their judgment does not work well yet, it reminds them that some actions are wrong. For example, a strike on the hand of a tot who reaches for the hot stove plate. b) It makes them want to avoid wrongdoing for fear of the consequenses.
      Which one is the case here, or do you know another way? Does subs live in fear of what will happen if they misbehave? Children often hide their crimes because they do not want to face the punishment. Does fear of BDSM punishments, likewise, produce dishonesty and cover-ups? Please link me to a blog post which describe an actual, healthy BDSM punishment happening to the sub. (Not in a switch DD relationship, but in a relationship with a dominant and a submissive.)
      Then we can discuss if the punishment fit the crime, if this was the wisest and most adult way to deal with the problem, and after that how a dom’s faults are handled in relationships, if he does not get punished. Is that a better way to handle bad behavior, or a lesser way, or equally good?
      Sorry for all my questions. But in short, it comes down to: Tell me honestly about “the positives” and “why it is so fulfilling.”

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